July 25, 2024

In the end of last year I bought a fantastic brand new Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Perpetual Calendar ref. 25820ST.

What a nice watch! However, it worked on my wrist only for 12 days and it stopped working on 20th February at 16:40. Sad…

I also bought in January a beautiful Royal Oak ref. 15202 from AP’s Singapore Boutique. 

I also bought two pairs of Royal Oak cufflinks. The model totally made of white gold from the Boutique from where I got my watch plus another pair with blue centre from Europe.

I was a very happy man! Till my 15202 stopped working after 20 days on my wrist. On the other hand, it was still 66% more reliable than my 25820 and because 15202 was cheaper, I would say that it was at least 150% better purchase than the perpetual Royal Oak.
But no worries! I had ordered for my 15202 a beautiful custom made oscillating weight already in October 2014 and it had just arrived the Boutique from where I bought the watch. So I took my watch to the Service Centre of Southeast Asia on 20th April 2015 where the Regional Manager of Service, Mr. Ruby, received my visit. He was very “sorry” because of my non-functioning watch…
AP promised to assemble the new oscillating weight and check what is wrong with the watch. A week later, on Monday 27th April at 10:00 I picked up my watch. The rotor was stunning!

Kind Mr. Ruby also told me what was wrong with the watch and after that I continued to a business meeting wearing my lovely 15202.


In the beginning of the year I promised in Patek Forum that this year I would wear my four Gerald Genta designs and after wearing these four watches for the entire year, I would give “my verdict” about them: the comfort, readability, reliability, etc.

Now I could continue this journey. My other Royal Oak was functioning again!
When leaving Singapore, I noticed again one fuck-up of the local AP Boutique. But I did not let it spoil my mood because I had a fantastic watch on my wrist. I must admit that also quite often I took the watch off from my wrist and admired the small tanker circulating inside.

Till this morning. I woke up early because the jet-lag is still pressing. The first thing I did was to check the time from my fantastic 15202. It was 04:22.
But what a heck! Sun is shining and the time is 04:22. I just checked yesterday that the sunrise is at 05:20!
MY 15202 HAD STOPPED WORKING AGAIN! This time it worked after the service 4 days 23 hours and 38 minutes. Fantastic Audemars Piguet!
I had to calm down – what can I do. Yes, I can do three things:
1. Write a mail to Audemars Piguet telling wat happened again. Tell them that now I have Scrap Metal of which I paid over € 80,000.2. Tell about my fantastic Royal Oaks in Watchprosite.3. Choose to my wrist a well-made reliable watch in order to calm down.
Both of my Patek Nautilus have always functioned without any problems. But because my 3712 has been with me for such a long time, I decided to wear that for the day.

For me there are no reasons to compare Royal Oak with Nautilus anymore. I have in my possession two non-functioning watches  I spent some € 80,000 and watchmaking art called Patek Philippe Nautilus references 3712 and 5711 to witch I spent tens of thousands less.
Conclusion: I AM A PATEK MAN!
Good Labour Day to all Purists!
Best, Kari

Is this bad luck? Not so sure, I have had many problems with my 5402ST as well and it has always been serviced at the same place, where you met Mr Thomas Rubi, who, by the way is a very nice gentleman.
Now the watch is functioning perfectly well and I am a happy man. 
I can understand now why you are a Patek Philippe man, and it is obviously not for lack of trying with AP.
CheersFrancoisand to his credit I must say that he was not totally comfortable testing my watch just for a week after the repairs.
At the same time I heard that the waiting lists for 15202 are long. So I guess the quality control of Audemars Piguet has collapsed.
I will post a real story later about the service of Patek vs. Audemars Piguet. It’s a story about one minor issue but it clearly tells why Patek is so superior.
All the best,KariNo message body
when the prices are what they are. In my books AP is simply not worth the money we pay for their watches. And the kind of watches I bought should never have hit the shelves of the shop.
Best, Karimust not be such hassle and mental torture to know they are not in good order. Hope all turns out better.
two flights worth of € 1,000 away.
When I will next time visit Patek’s Geneva Salon, I might also throw the junk I have to AP Boutique. I have also been offered an opportunity to visit AP’s factory in Le Brassus but in my current mood I would be a most unpleasant visitor.
Best, KariNo message bodyto one of the main owners who is also a Board Member of AP what I think. In a polite way, as always.
But I will do something. Perhaps putting the other watch into pieces and film it to internet, write a polite letter or something. Now it is a bit difficult to be objective.
If this would happen to one watch – fine! Two brand new watches… it tells a lot about the quality or quality control of Audemars Piguet. I wonder how do they justify their prices.
Best, KariThanks tough for sharing, because only a broad public can motivate AP as any other brand to improve. I followed your sad experiences for a while now in these forums, but this is just the cherry on top. Two watches, hardly worn but reliably fail. Really sounds embarrassing for AP and I wonder how many others are out there with the same or something else, and yet nobody knows about it. Yes, and before it rains down on me: I know that there are also working models out there. 
From an outsider’s perspective, your wrists seem to be made for PP and not AP. 
Anyhow, good luck with your AP’s “last repair”. 
Regards, Kolosstt 
will be my nice 5402 with box & papers. AP can do a full overall service and then I sell the watch or give as a present to somebody.
The perpetual RO I can’t afford to sell. When carrying this watch out from the shop, over 50% of the value is vaporising into the air. So it’s also in that respect like the Russian Lada car. Reliability is also very similar…
Best, KariI would be on the wish-list…
than having a Royal Oak on the wrist.
Best, KariWe could now start an off-topic discussion what is more reliable: A> the Lada car used somewhere out in the uncivilised desert and nobody cares to go down the unpaved streets.B> Or the AP that is worn by people like you in white collar with hardest impacts that may be clapping hands?
No offence to you and let’s stop it after one more question:Is that why the Russian favourite watch brands are others than AP?:/
Anyway, I don’t know where and how you came to the perpetual, but why shouldn’t the dealer take it back?Have they replaced the movement yet rather than changing a jewel in hope that it would fix it?
I don’t know Kari but I think there is still hope that your collection can concentrate more on PP even without such a financial loss…
Best regards, Kolosstt 
from 1974 till 1977 when working as a water clark.. I was told that when the car breaks, I will get a Toyota Corolla.
With all the enthusiasm of a young man, I tried everything I could with my Lada: I drove over 60 km/h with the first gear, I changed to reverse when the car was moving forward… And the car functioned day after day, month after month and year after year.
So my example was a very bad one and insulting Lada. However, I was very happy to get a Toyota after three years, after that a Volvo, etc. The only car that left me to the road was a brand new BMW 545. But the problem was fixed. I have been lucky with my cars, not with my AP watches.
I will contact the dealer who sold me the RO QP. The watch was brand new with all stickers. I’m sure that the reply I will get is that “send it for service”. I naturally need to do that but first calm down a bit.
What comes to the Russian taste of watches, I do not agree about the politics of “Putja”. However, he seems to have quite a good taste when watches are concerned.
Best, Kariwhich left me on the road: a Mazda Rx-8 and a Bmw 335i coupe. Both were my personal cars, unfortunately, the Bmw left me 3 times on the Road and I still have problems with it..
But I never had any problems with my beloved Honda S2000 although I have done the same things with it like Kari with his Lada: I drove 70 km/h on the first gear, 110 km/h on the second, I participated in races etc.
The Lada’s received their cult-status meanwhile, they are very reliable, and were great stars at the rally-races their time, and even now!
because today is my wife’s birthday and she will get as a partial present her new car next week: BMW 435iX Cabriolet. Perhaps it will leave her on the road far away from home, lol.
I have just good experience of this engine. I had as my summer car for a couple of years a BMW 335i Cabriolet. The only problem with that one was that some parts got loose in the Estonian roads. Those are constructed using a Russian potato field as a model.
Best, Karias far as I know, the very first series engines have only this kind of problem, and mine belongs to them.. 
I like the characteristics of the engine and I intend to borrow the car every now and then…
Best, KariI have just heard from my AD, that there are many problems with the new 15202’s! They have sold 4 in the last 6 Month, and 3 of them came back with the same issue: the watches stopped working!!!
And yes, there are huge problems with the quality end-control: it shouldn’t have happened, when the end-control works properly..
They also told me, that the problems concerning mainly for the Anniversary-Dial Models, because there were some modification on the movement as well, not only the rotor was re-designed. It was quite new to me, because I thought, that the movement is totally the same, except the new styled rotor..
It is not acceptable for any kind of new mechanical watch at any kind of price-range, to stop after a couple of Month, IMHO!
And it is totally not acceptable for such a Manufacture, like Audemars Piquet. Just my 50 cents..

just the same issue: the watch stopped working.
The Service Centre thought they found the problem and also explained the same to me. However, it looks like there are at least two problems with the movement.
It’s weird that my just the same happened to my RO QP. It was accurate and nice for a short while and then, it just stopped working.
I hope AP is tackling the issue with a serious attitude. I have also heard that my 15202 was not the only Anniversary version having the same problem. Let’s see what is the outcome with my 5402.
Best, Kari
and naturally, they are very sorry. The good news is that now the factory knows about the problems and I hope that they can also figure out what went wrong with the latest production.
Perhaps a re-call for check-up would be in place?
Best, KariYou get an email on a public state holiday from AP factory?=> Some heavy bells must have been ringing!
the Regional Client Service Manager of Southeast Asia Mr. Jeremie Comel. In fact I got two mails.
Jeremie is a very nice guy and he has been communicating with Switzerland, I do not know with whom there.
Anyhow, it is clear that AP is taking such an issue seriously just like the should. I am sure that they will be able to fix everything but at this stage it does not make me smile because a lot of time and trouble will go to settling this issue. But like said, AP’s attitude is correct and they try to correct the situation.
Best, KariIm sorry, its very frustating when that happens to a watch.

The 15202 is one of my favorites, but the fact that I had a ROO that stopped working twice (some days after the service, stopped again!) have delayed the buy, I know it is different movement (mine had the 3120 variant) but that talks about the lack of quality control in Audemars Piguet, also my cousin ROO stopped working the same way.

Sold the ROO, got a 5711 and I have been happy! (knock on wood! I have also heard about PP sticky date problems..all good so far after more than 2 years)

Hope AP puts more attention, because the 15202 its really a beatiful and iconic piece, but at the end of the day, IT HAS to be reliable, its a watch after all.

Not the first time I read problems with the 15202 movement, hope they find whats going on, because I want one so bad!

I have two Patek: they both faced a problem.

I have one Audemars, the Millenary 4101: it is maybe the most accurate watch of my collection and never faced an issue.

Conclusion: I’m an AP man? No, the reality is that any brand may face problems.

I’m not sure my sample is large enough to draw enough conclusion by the way!


I understand 100% the argument you are making.
In Finnish we say “the lightning never hits the same place twice”. In reality it can happen but very seldom.
The lightning hit me twice and when the other watch was repaired, it hit again in 5 days. Plus there has been also some reports that there has been just similar problems with the newest 15202. One does not need to be a Rocket Scientist to draw conclusions. Plus when all the shit is flying to own fan, one can really feel the same in the face.
I do not say that all AP would be the same. I like many of the watches AP is producing but now I think AP is having an issue to solve.
I’m not a “Patek Man” because I’m dissapointed  with my two Royal Oak. The reasons are much deeper and more about the same later. Now I hope and believe that AP will look at the problem a bit deeper. They have some good people capable of doing that. In the end in this word there’s much more complicated technology than watch movements.
Best, KariSurely, anyone here would echo your sentiments if we had the same experience.  I have never experienced such problems with any watch, and my 15202 has been 100% reliable.
I wish you continued luck with your Pateks.  Do share with us the findings on the 15202, and I hope you will one day be able to trust these 2 APs.
I am sure that one day these two AP RO will tick correctly.
And my attitude is not to put AP against PP – vice versa: I would like to see these two brands side-by-side.
I did not sacrafice remarkable amounts of hard earned money in order to criticise AP. I bought these watches in order to enjoy them – like said, side-by-side with my Nautilus. I had again my 15202 on my wrist for over four days and I enjoyed wearing the watch big time. I was just so bloody disappointed this morning, waking up and noticing AGAIN!
I feel that something is wrong with the latest watches having 2120 movement and I hope AP will find the reasons and fix the same.
Best, Kari
Hope all will be ultimately sorted out to your satisfaction. What was the issue found by AP when they first serviced the watch? Please also keep us posted on what the next diagnosis will point to.
was originally adjusted too close to something else and that stopped the watch. To be honest, I did not even listen too carefully. My feeling was that AP wanted to tell something simple to say “a very minor issue that is now solved”.
People fly to space, we can surf in internet, also purely technical machines are developing all the time.
AP’s 2120 is a trusted well design which has been in regular production for well over 40 years. If something goes wrong with several movements belonging to 2120 family, it tells that something is wrong with quality control.
If we buy watches from Brand Boutiques, we are in direct contact with the manufacturer. We need to express strongly the dissatisfaction if there is reason for the same and this is the way for AP to improve!
I was told that many people in AP read the posts in Watchprosite. The best guarantee that any problems arising are correctly analysed and fixed, id to scram a little bit here. Producing movements like 2120 is not rocket science. The trick is to produce those correctly and see that the needed quality control is there. With the current prices the manufacturers can afford the same.
If the same would have happened with two of my Pateks, I would have been much louder after the first service failed. I would have contacted all the people I have met in the Patek organisation who possible could influence to their quality control. And I have met many.
Here in these Forums, we should not only be smiling and telling how wonderful all the brands discussed are. Naturally, that’s helping the sales. But we should also take up any issues arising because by doing that, we can influence.
I am sure that both of my Royal Oak watches will finally be fine. Taking the problems up in a strong way, partly helps fixing the issue. But the most important aspect is that being critical helps the new buyers getting watches which are more reliable.
Best, KariI am sorry to hear that your AP’s have been such a let down but you should be comforted by the fact that your 5550 is quite simply one of the best watches on the planet!
I hope your AP nightmare is resolved quickly.
my 5550P works fine and it is very accurate. If any problems would arise, Patek likes to know about those before introducing the same technology to new watches.
I well understand that when I was given an opportunity to buy a 5550P, I also approved the responsibility to work as a watch-wearing guinea pig. In the end the technology in 5550P is under research still now. But I trust Patek knows what they do.
I also trust that AP can fix my watches. They just need to take the time and analyse what went wrong and then fix the issue. I feel irritated but I guess it’s understandable. In the end I have put a lot of hard earned money to these two watches which I cannot wear. The both show the right time only two times a day.
Best, Kari